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Constitutional lawyer and former US Solicitor Ted Olson recently died at the age of 84. Olson represented the state of New Jersey in its efforts to overturn a federal ban on sports gambling. Those efforts succeeded, as we hear in our episode “Welcome to the Garden State.” But Olson and Michael Lewis talked about many other aspects of his vivid legal career. We’re offering their full conversation today.

The Host

Michael Lewis

Michael Lewis, host of the podcast Against the Rules, has published many New York Times bestselling books, including The Fifth Risk, Flash Boys, and The Big Short. Movie versions of…