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Rick Rubin, like all of us, has been thinking a lot about fear lately. And few people on the planet understand fear in the same way that Rick’s good friend, David Blaine, does. David has made a career of pushing his mind and body to the limit. So Rick thought David might be a great person to talk to about facing fear.

Ok, obviously this conversation isn’t about music. But it does touch on one of Rick’s other great loves—magic. When he was a kid, Rick studied magic. Since then magic has become so much more than sleight of hand for him … he uses the idea of pulling something out of nothing when he’s making music. So it makes sense that he would turn to one of the best living magicians for words of wisdom.

The Hosts

Rick Rubin

In addition to being a podcast host, Frederick Jay “Rick” Rubin is an American record producer and former co-president of Columbia Records. Along with Russell Simmons, he is the co-founder…

Malcolm Gladwell

Malcolm Gladwell is co-founder of Pushkin Industries and host of the hit podcast Revisionist History. He is a journalist, a speaker, and the author of several New York Times bestsellers including The Tipping…

Justin Richmond

Justin Richmond is producer and co-host of the music podcast Broken Record with writer Malcolm Gladwell, New York Times editor Bruce Headlam, and music producer—and Def Jam co-founder—Rick Rubin. Justin…

Bruce Headlam

Bruce Headlam is one of the co-creators of the music podcast Broken Record. He worked at The New York Times for 19 years, including two years running the 50-person Video…