Jonathan Goldstein
Jonathan Goldstein is the host and creator of the podcast Heavyweight. In 2016, the Atlantic named it the number one podcast of the year; in 2017 it received a Third…
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As a kid, Cayden was repressed, quiet, and very much closeted. But on a church mission trip, he met Andrew, who inspired him to come out. Now, as an adult, Cayden wants to know what became of Andrew.
Pushkin. What?
00:15
Speaker 2
Sorry, we were cut off. We didn't have a proper goodbye, so I was just calling back.
00:18
Speaker 1
We weren't.
00:19
Speaker 2
So take care.
00:20
Speaker 1
We weren't cut off.
00:22
Speaker 2
Oh, you hung up on my face.
00:24
Speaker 1
Okay. Okay. Thank you.
00:26
Speaker 2
Before you go, are you an innie or an outie? That's all. I'm asking because I was just going to buy you a sweatshirt for Simchas Torah. All right, let's go.
00:34
Speaker 1
Oh, hi.
00:34
Speaker 2
How are you?
00:35
Speaker 1
Good to see you.
00:39
Speaker 2
It's very surprising to me to even see how polite you can be to other people. I am.
00:44
Speaker 1
I'm very polite.
00:45
Speaker 2
Why can't you be like that with me?
00:46
Speaker 1
I am.
00:54
Speaker 2
From Pushkin Industries, I'm Jonathan Goldstein, and this is Heavyweight. Today's episode, Caden. Right after the break.
01:16
Speaker 1
Hi.
01:17
Speaker 2
Caden, hi.
01:18
Speaker 1
Hello.
01:19
Speaker 2
I think you're the first Caden I've met.
01:21
Speaker 1
You're the second Jonathan I've interacted with today.
01:24
Speaker 2
Oh.
01:25
Speaker 1
I have a student named Jonathan.
01:26
Speaker 2
Oh, our experiences are quite the opposite. Caden teaches eighth grade to students named Jonathan and possibly other names too. He's here to tell me a story about when he was in eighth grade. Back then, Caden was the kind of kid who ate lunch alone. He kept to himself and followed the rules. Even at his church youth group, the main social hub of his life, Caden remained on the sidelines. It's in youth group that his story takes place.
01:57
Speaker 1
People at church were always like, wow, you'd be like a really good pastor. Like, you're really stoic, quiet. And I remember being like, I don't know, I think part of being a pastor is you do have to speak.
02:10
Speaker 2
If the meek did inherit the earth, Caden would have been first in line. But when approached by the Lord with a quick claim to sign, Caden would have been too shy to ask for a pen. In the summer of 2013, his church's youth group headed off for a mission trip to Oklahoma. They were meeting up with several other churches to help clean up after a recent tornado. You were going there to do disaster relief?
02:40
Speaker 1
Yes, which is funny in retrospect. It's like, what were 13, 14-year-olds going to do?
02:47
Speaker 2
When they got to the dorms where they'd be staying, Caden's youth pastor pulled him aside. It was then that he told him about Andrew. Andrew was another kid on the trip. The pastor said Andrew was a little loud, a little chaotic, but maybe Caden could be a good influence. The pastor then informed Caden that for the duration of the trip, he'd be rooming with Andrew.
03:11
Speaker 1
I go into this room, and the kid's already there. And I'm like, oh my, we've been here for 10 minutes, and all your clothes are out and about. And then here's me, like, clinging to my bag. I'm like, I'm scared to put it down. What if he rummages through or something? Right. I mean, he was such a different personality than me. Just a mile a minute, flying with ideas. I remember he was, like, starting to do, like, a little workout in the room. Like, he was doing push-ups.
03:43
Speaker 2
While Andrew pushed floor, possibly while shirtless, Caden, fully shirted, possibly even undershirted, slumped on the edge of the bed. As they settled in, Andrew found a box of tampons that had been left behind. Pulling one out, he swung it by the string like a lasso. Caden looked on in horror. How, he wondered, was he going to exert influence over Andrew? The next morning, they rose early and got to work, which mostly meant picking up garbage in the height of summer.
04:19
Speaker 1
It was 90 degrees. It was really sweaty. I had to clean a porta potty, which was terrible. You have to really love God. I mean, we were out in the sun for hours and hours and hours. And I remember at some point we were taking a break near the van.
04:35
Speaker 2
Caden was sitting with some girls from his youth group.
04:37
Speaker 1
And they're like, hey, like, what's your roommate going on about?
04:41
Speaker 2
Caden looked over and saw Andrew holding court before a group of kids.
04:45
Speaker 1
He was just kind of going off about something.
04:48
Speaker 2
And the topic of his impromptu sermon?
04:50
Speaker 1
He's like, I'm bisexual. I'm bisexual. And I remember that being the first time I'd ever heard someone say those words in real life. And I heard him say it, and I had this drop in my gut.
05:15
Speaker 2
Hearing Andrew just casually admit to something like that frightened Caden.
05:19
Speaker 1
I was so scared of it because I was starting to understand it in myself. I'd been questioning my own sexuality for a few years to that point. It was constantly top of mind, every day. Like, turn on incognito mode and take the early 2010's Am I Gay quiz from some random website and manipulating the answer so that way it said no, because we don't want that.
05:47
Speaker 2
And you would not voice this to anybody, any friends?
05:49
Speaker 1
I had never voiced this to anyone. We don't say that. It was a very conservative church environment.
05:57
Speaker 2
To illustrate, Caden shares an example from a couple years later.
06:02
Speaker 1
I remember when the same-sex marriage ruling came down in 2015. I went into church for the first time since that ruling came out. And I've never experienced this otherwise, but they refused to turn the lights on in the building because it was a day of mourning. Wow. This is, like, maybe not the ultimate sin, but it is up there high.
06:25
Speaker 2
Caden had learned that being queer was something you stuffed down and buried. It wasn't declared loudly nor proudly like Andrew had, especially not to people you barely knew, especially not on a church trip.
06:38
Speaker 1
And so I was so just like, How is he doing that? And why is he doing that? I remember that night we came back. I was so worried about betraying anything, of being curious, because that was another emotion. It's like when you see the scary animal at the zoo, but you want to get closer to the glass, but you never want to go past the glass. And I remember being back in the room, and he's like, I'm bisexual. I'm like, I've heard. I've heard. And at the time I was like, I really have, I have like every question under the sun and I refuse to ask any of them.
07:22
Speaker 2
As the trip wore on though, a change occurred in Caden. Rather than Caden tamping down Andrew, Andrew was tamping up Caden. When Andrew dropped to the floor to do his pushups, Caden would do pushups too. He'd also join Andrew on his explorations of the dorms, even sneaking into off-limits areas of the building and out to the parking lot at night. For someone as sheltered as Caden, it felt taboo and exciting. Andrew was like a passkey.
07:52
Speaker 1
I remember warming up to him in a way that I couldn't admit to anyone. I started to understand of him to be such a cooler person. And so throughout the week, the more we talked, the more I was just like, I wonder what that would be like to be him for a moment.
08:19
Speaker 2
On the last day of the trip, everyone said their goodbyes and exchanged phone numbers. Did you keep in touch with Andrew after that?
08:26
Speaker 1
So I didn't have a phone at the time, and I was borrowing my mom's cell phone.
08:33
Speaker 2
So a week later, when Caden's mom started getting texts from someone named Andrew, she was confused.
08:39
Speaker 1
She was like, who's texting me? Who's this person?
08:43
Speaker 2
And Caden, because he felt he couldn't say anything, just watched as his mother deleted the contact. But in the months to come, he kept thinking about Andrew, thinking about what it would feel like to be so comfortable in your own skin. For Caden, someone who felt embarrassed by his mere existence, This was a big, almost impossible thought. The following year, Caden got his own phone, and while texting a friend one day, he thought back to Andrew. Andrew had been able to come out to strangers, so Caden should at least be able to come out to a friend. And that's what he did.
09:27
Speaker 1
Sort of.
09:28
Speaker 2
He texted his friend, I'm G.
09:30
Speaker 1
And then he was like... you're what? Like, I don't know what that means. I'm like, let me give you the second letter. And then finally I'm like, oh shoot, this is a really short word. And then I remember being like, well, screw it, like Andrew did. And I sent, I'm gay.
09:47
Speaker 2
And how was it received by your friend?
09:50
Speaker 1
Like the best I could ask for. Oh, that's cool. I remember being like, okay, like I did what Andrew did in less of an outburst-y way. He kind of set me up to be like, well, if he can do it in his way, then I can do it in my way. And then I did. And then the next time when I came out to more friends when I was 15, a year later, like, Every time, when I was 16, to my parents, 17, like, kept going back, well, like, Andrew did it.
10:25
Speaker 2
Wow.
10:25
Speaker 1
If he did it, and then, so I did it again, and again.
10:29
Speaker 2
But there's one person Cadence always wanted to come out to that he's not been able to. His inspiration, Andrew. The problem is, he's never been able to find him.
10:41
Speaker 1
I'd want to just say thank you, because I think... I was so isolated, repressed, quiet, and I didn't know an escape hatch. And he didn't even provide an escape hatch. He just provided like an open field of like, you can just go and do that.
11:01
Speaker 2
Thirteen years later, and Caden is in his mid-twenties. He's left the church and gone from being the quiet kid to someone who strikes up long conversations with strangers. And if he's been able to get to that place, he can only imagine where Andrew has gotten.
11:16
Speaker 1
Who could he be now? I'd love to know where he ended up. I hope I didn't influence him the wrong way, like a Freaky Friday situation. He's on a Christian broadcast recording talking about how I influenced him to be stoic and repressive.
11:39
Speaker 2
After the break, we find out.
11:41
Speaker 1
This is, like, every, like, homophobic parent family's worst fear is, like, you go on the church trip and you come back gay. Caden? Caden? Howdy.
12:12
Speaker 2
Are those overalls or coveralls?
12:15
Speaker 1
They are overalls. It's overall Friday because I'm over it all.
12:19
Speaker 2
Hey, nice.
12:22
Speaker 1
The kids say I'm a bit of a poser with them. They're like... Why?
12:25
Speaker 2
Oh, because you don't actually work with your hands.
12:27
Speaker 1
I don't need overalls. It's just the aesthetic.
12:30
Speaker 2
Sure. So, yeah, what's been going on since we last spoke?
12:35
Speaker 1
Yeah, so nothing and then suddenly something.
12:41
Speaker 2
It's been several months since Caden and I last spoke. In the meantime, he's taken the lead on Project Find Andrew. I'd suggest that he start by reaching out to his old youth pastor. And when that didn't bear fruit, Caden just kept going, reaching out to a chain of different pastors at different churches, hoping to find someone who knew Andrew back then. But it was all dead ends. Until one day, when Caden got a message from Andrew's old youth pastor. And the message contained Andrew's full name and contact information.
13:15
Speaker 1
I was really excited and I was like overwhelmed. I was like, I didn't want to like reach out right away because I was like, it is later in the evening. So I did naturally was like, I wonder if I can find him on social media. I scrolled through like 30 different Facebook pages and I found his Facebook of Andrew.
13:32
Speaker 2
And this is where a problem arose. A freaky problem.
13:38
Speaker 1
Just kind of getting the sense that there's a chance that this person I've built in my memory doesn't necessarily reflect a current reality.
13:47
Speaker 2
The first thing Caden noted was Andrew's profile photo.
13:58
Speaker 1
Let me pull up his picture. Okay. Because I think there's this like visual cue of like.
14:03
Speaker 2
Oh, he looks like Mr. Straight Guy. Yeah. He's got a backwards baseball cap. He's got, Shades hanging off his t-shirt. He's got his foot up on a semi?
14:15
Speaker 1
Like a truck? It's like a plane.
14:17
Speaker 2
Oh, it's an airplane. But it wasn't just the hat, the airplane, nor the foot on the airplane. Andrew's profile was full of memes. Like this one.
14:28
Speaker 1
Don't gay people realize that they actually need straight people and not the other way around? And I was like, whoa. Whoa.
14:38
Speaker 2
Oh, interesting.
14:39
Speaker 1
Okay, okay. It's like that classic homophobia of gay people exist, maybe. And if they do, it's because it's straight people. You can't have two gay people make a straight person. They can't reproduce.
14:55
Speaker 2
Caden grew up hearing this kind of thing, but he didn't expect to hear it from Andrew.
15:00
Speaker 1
I actually just found this one. He has a meme on here that says, straight pride. It's natural. It's worked for thousands of years and you can make babies.
15:13
Speaker 2
The way that you described him back then, I thought like he was going to be on the top echelon of like the main float of a pride parade or something.
15:23
Speaker 1
Same. I would have expected that.
15:26
Speaker 2
Caden's gone from feeling excited to meet Andrew to feeling apprehensive, especially apprehensive given the moment we're living through now.
15:34
Speaker 1
From, like, 2015 to 2017, like, there was, like, this upward trajectory, so it seemed culturally, of, like, same-sex marriage and, like, I think people sometimes forget, like, Donald Trump, when asked about, like, transgender bathrooms, did not care about it. I think it was Caitlyn Jenner. He was like, she can use the women's restroom. There was that moment where you could be out and expressive and the culture had your back. Even if individuals didn't, like, the culture did. And I think, uh, That's something we've seen a shift on. Being out is considered a little bit radical again.
16:15
Speaker 2
Because of that shift, Caden finds himself more guarded. He doesn't talk about being gay at the public school where he teaches. And in the emails he sent to churches during his search for Andrew, he hedged in his language. Instead of saying, I want to find Andrew because he helped me come out, he instead said, I want to find Andrew because he made a positive impact. He was a light. But that isn't the way he wants to talk to Andrew. The problem is, though, he's not sure who Andrew has become. It's like Caden wants to thank the young Andrew, but to do that, he'll have to talk to adult Andrew, and he's not sure who that is.
16:55
Speaker 1
I also don't want to amplify his homophobia, um, I don't necessarily want to say like, hey, that thing that you dislike, you made me that way and like lead him on a further path of like resentment. I think it'd be helpful to have someone else just reach out. So that way, if it feels like, oh, like this is someone who you probably don't want, like just someone who can help facilitate, that would be really appreciated.
17:29
Speaker 2
I'm eager to finally make myself useful, since while Caden was searching for Andrew, I was spending the bulk of my time Googling, what's an overall Friday? Great work. I didn't know that we were going to find him. I mean, Andrew did not seem to be a lot to go by.
17:45
Speaker 1
But now he's here.
17:47
Speaker 2
Now he's here. He's queer. Maybe, maybe not.
17:54
Speaker 1
We'll see. We will see.
18:13
Speaker 2
When I go to Andrew's confusing, homophobic, meme-filled Facebook page to message him, I make a discovery. Linked to his Facebook page is his fiancée' s page. And on his fiancée' s page, her profile picture is framed by the pride flag. There are even photos of her and Andrew together, framed in rainbow colors. What in the name of Francis Ethel Gumm is going on here? While the discovery further baffles me, it does allay some of my concerns about Andrew's views. And so, I message Andrew. And after some back and forth, he and I finally speak on the phone. I quickly learn that Andrew is a man of few words. When I ask whether he remembers going on that mission trip to Oklahoma, he says, yes. When I ask if he remembers the name Caden, he says, vaguely. I tell him how Caden remembers his brashness, his confidence. Yeah, he says, that sounds like me back then. Not now, I ask? Well, he says, rather cryptically, life teaches you lessons. Andrew seems a little knocked around by life, but he doesn't seem like a threat. And since Caden still wants to talk to him, I decide we should give it a try. While my ability to make connections has been well documented, it's a less known fact that I'm equally adept at making disconnections. So I figure, if the whole thing goes sideways... I can always just disconnect the line.
19:53
Speaker 1
Caden? Howdy.
19:55
Speaker 2
Hey, how are you? All right, so Andrew's standing by.
19:58
Speaker 1
Okay.
20:00
Speaker 2
I will bring up the stuff about his bisexuality.
20:05
Speaker 1
Okay.
20:05
Speaker 2
So that you don't have to.
20:07
Speaker 1
Perfect.
20:09
Speaker 2
But how does one tactfully bring up such things? Were you once bisexual? Are you still? And by the way, do you dislike gay people? All right, let's, uh, let's see Andrew.
20:22
Speaker 1
Okay.
20:24
Speaker 2
And so, I add Andrew to the video call. Andrew?
20:28
Speaker 1
Hey, Jonathan, how are you doing today?
20:31
Speaker 2
Andrew is lounging on a couch. His beard is cut short, and his camp is pointed in a backwards... heterosexual direction. This is Caden. Do you guys, do you recognize each other?
20:44
Speaker 3
Ever so slightly. It's been quite some time.
20:48
Speaker 1
Yeah, it's been double the lifetime.
20:50
Speaker 2
What do you remember from that trip?
20:53
Speaker 3
There was a lot of walking in the sun looking for little bits of metal.
20:57
Speaker 1
I don't know if you remember in that field, there was a part where they were like, look out for body parts. We've already done our check, but if you do see, raise your hand and we'll come get that for you. I do. I do remember that, yeah. Yeah.
21:12
Speaker 2
Of course, I'm wondering if Andrew also remembers his speech by the van. So I tee up Caden to talk about the general impression Andrew made back then. My hope is that it might set the stage for the questions I want to ask. Caden, can you explain for Andrew, like, why, like, what it was about him at that time that really kind of was impactful?
21:33
Speaker 1
Yeah, I, at the time, I was, like, very quiet. And I remember, like, when we first started rooming together, I was like, oh, my gosh, like, you were, you had a lot of, like, opinions and, like, were just very yourself and very confident. And I just really admired that.
21:53
Speaker 2
When Andrew responds... I can't help hearing his words in the context of his van speech.
21:59
Speaker 3
I definitely wasn't afraid to express myself. Really didn't much care what people thought.
22:04
Speaker 2
Are there specific things that you could think of, like declaring your sexual orientation to a van full of strangers?
22:12
Speaker 3
I'm trying to think of any specifics, but I really didn't like being told to do stuff that I really didn't feel was right. And I had no problems whatsoever refusing to do that. Mind you, 13-year-old me didn't quite always know what was right. That's for certain.
22:33
Speaker 2
What are you thinking of?
22:34
Speaker 1
Oh, I'm not thinking of anything in particular.
22:42
Speaker 2
As I back and forth with Andrew, I fear I might be inducing a minor panic attack in Caden. This is the sound of Caden's leg. Jiggling. For you to better appreciate his jiggling speed, I've amplified the sound, the way they do in documentaries about insects. So for Caden's sake, and the sake of his poor Elvis leg, I decide to just dive in and ask the question. Um, Andrew, I don't know how comfortable you are talking about this, and if you're not, we... definitely don't have to go in this direction, but one of the things that Caden specifically remembers was how you were able to talk openly at the time about being bisexual. Is that something that you still identify with?
23:39
Speaker 1
No, it's not. Okay.
23:42
Speaker 2
Are you comfortable talking about this?
23:44
Speaker 1
Yeah. Yeah, we can go for it. Yeah?
23:46
Speaker 2
Oh, cool. And with that, Caden's leg comes to rest.
23:52
Speaker 1
Yeah, I was, like, very much closeted. I am gay, for the record. And I remember at one point you had said you were bisexual and you were just very confident about that. When I first came out to a friend, like, that was, like, your inspiration of, like, well, he's done it.
24:10
Speaker 2
Erring on the side of caution, Caden also adds.
24:14
Speaker 1
And, like, that you don't identify in that way now is totally okay because, like, at that moment it was such a, like, I didn't feel so alone. Good.
24:26
Speaker 2
Good is good. Andrew doesn't seem homophobic, but at the same time, what exactly does he seem? When I ask Andrew about his bisexuality, he's fairly matter-of-fact.
24:44
Speaker 1
I guess it was just something that came, and later on, something that went.
24:49
Speaker 2
It went at some point in his teens. But while he was bi, Andrew insists he was genuinely bi. But now, he's genuinely not. It's not something you often hear, and I don't exactly know how to ask about it. I mean, I don't want to minimize it. Like, would you say it was something that you kind of, like, how do you think about it? Do you think about it as something that you grew out of, or that just evolved?
25:13
Speaker 3
No, I wouldn't say grew out of. I would say I just knew what I liked, knew what I didn't.
25:20
Speaker 2
And that just kind of changed over time.
25:22
Speaker 1
Yeah.
25:24
Speaker 2
Rather than being disappointed by this change in Andrew, Caden sees merit in it.
25:29
Speaker 1
That you knew who you were then and you know who you are now I think actually is very admirable because I think it's so hard to have a label in the first place and then to change that.
25:44
Speaker 2
As for Andrew's impulse to proclaim who he was so loudly, proudly, and repeatedly... That might have been because of pressure his parents were putting on him to get in line.
25:55
Speaker 3
Almost an act of rebellion of, you're not going to tell me who I am. I'm the one who decides that.
26:01
Speaker 1
Right.
26:01
Speaker 3
Both family and the church held very strong views against it.
26:05
Speaker 2
Yeah.
26:05
Speaker 1
Family a little bit more strict than the church was.
26:09
Speaker 2
Andrew, are you still involved in the church?
26:12
Speaker 1
No, I'm not. I haven't been in years.
26:15
Speaker 3
It was pushed pretty hard upon me, and my parents would not take no for an answer. got to a point where I turned 18 and they installed a tracker on my phone. And every week that I didn't go to church, they'd actually charge me money.
26:27
Speaker 1
Oh, wow. And that was kind of the breaking point for me.
26:33
Speaker 2
In the back of Caden's mind, there had been the fear that Andrew was now straight because of pressure from the church. But it turns out that wasn't the case. Andrew left the church before posting any of those memes on his Facebook page. So then, how to explain the memes? Where was all of that coming from? There are these memes about straight pride.
26:57
Speaker 1
What are those?
26:59
Speaker 3
I think a lot of it is just getting a rise out of people to get a rise out of people. You do a lot when you're not happy. I don't go on Facebook much, and I don't go through my profile much. Truthfully, I forgot those were up. Definitely not my Proudest moments.
27:25
Speaker 2
Andrew is now in his mid-twenties. When I go back to check the dates on the memes, they're all concentrated around eight years ago, the summer and fall he was 19. He says it was a bad time.
27:36
Speaker 3
I won't go into too much detail, but I got kicked out of the house because of my parents' divorce and of getting someone else upset. Makes you feel a little bit less worse about yourself. That's kind of how I would handle it.
27:50
Speaker 1
Yeah.
27:51
Speaker 2
After being forced to leave home, Andrew moved to Michigan. It was there that he met his fiancée. And his fiancée? Andrew confirms that she is proudly bi.
28:02
Speaker 3
She's attracted guys and girls.
28:05
Speaker 2
That's all cool?
28:06
Speaker 1
Yeah, I don't care.
28:09
Speaker 2
Andrew isn't the same person he was when he was 13. He isn't the same person he was when he was 19. He's no longer bi. He's no longer loud or chaotic. He keeps his cards pretty close to the vest. But like Andrew says, people change.
28:32
Speaker 3
It's awesome to hear that I left a lasting impact on someone that changed their life for the better and that they're living a happier, comfortable life because of who I was when I was a kid. I always just thought I was a menace. I'm grateful I was able to make an impact like that. Truthfully, I didn't know.
28:58
Speaker 1
I'm just a dude.
29:00
Speaker 3
I'm just a guy who goes to work in the morning, comes home, eats some food, takes a shower, goes to bed.
29:07
Speaker 2
But for Caden, he's more than that. Andrew was a rainbow-colored meteor blazing across his childhood, a kind of miracle when he needed one most. And while Andrew might no longer be the tampon-swinging outlaw Caden remembers, he's still willing to talk publicly about what he feels and believes, no matter what people may think. And in that way, Andrew is still Andrew.
29:37
Speaker 1
Proud of you, Caden? Really am. Thank you.
29:41
Speaker 3
Doing awesome, man. And in some weird way, me helping you is helping me.
29:49
Speaker 1
Take it easy, y'all. Thank you, Jonathan.
29:51
Speaker 2
Thank you, Andrew. Take it easy.
29:54
Speaker 1
Well.
29:57
Speaker 2
That was... Uh, surprising?
30:01
Speaker 1
Yeah. In all the good ways. I was so nervous. And now I'm just like, I feel really elated, happy. I don't know, like there was part of me before I got in this phone calls, I'm like, I can't say the words I'm gay to him.
30:19
Speaker 2
Really?
30:19
Speaker 1
Like I was at work today just being like, how do you come out to the person who taught you how to come out to people? Yeah. And then I did, and I was like, and I think that's a lesson I'll keep learning for myself.
30:33
Speaker 2
What is that lesson?
30:36
Speaker 1
It's all right to be who I am.
30:39
Speaker 2
When I ask Caden if he ever sees himself coming out to his students, he says that's a line he still wonders about. But he keeps a pride flag in his classroom so that kids like him know it's a safe spot. He says at a recent pride event, he ran into a few former students and their families They were excited to see him. They knew you'd be here, one of the students said. And that felt nice. Now, Caden can be someone else's passkey.
31:07
Speaker 1
The End Furniture's returning to its goodwill home Now that the last month's rent.
32:03
Speaker 3
Is scheming with the damage deposit Take.
32:07
Speaker 1
This moment to.
32:08
Speaker 3
Decide If we meant it, if we.
32:13
Speaker 2
Tried Or felt around for far too much From things that accidentally touch This episode of Heavyweight was produced by Kalila Holt and me, Jonathan Goldstein, along with Lisa Wang. Our supervising producer is Stevie Lane. Editorial guidance from Emily Condon. Special thanks to Ben Natafhaffrey, Lucy Sullivan, Lydia Jean Cott, and Jackie Cohen. Emma Munger mixed the episode with original music by Christine Fellows, John K. Sampson, Emma Munger, and Bobby Lord. Additional scoring by Luke Janela and Blue Dot Sessions. Our theme song is by The Weaker Thans, courtesy of Epitaph Records. Follow us on Instagram at heavyweightpodcast or email us at heavyweight at pushkin.fm. And be sure to subscribe to our free newsletter at patreon.com slash heavyweight. We'll be back with a new episode in two weeks.
The Host
