Malcolm Gladwell
Malcolm Gladwell is co-founder of Pushkin Industries and host of the hit podcast Revisionist History. He is a journalist, a speaker, and the author of several New York Times bestsellers including The Tipping…
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Revisionist History presents: The Little Mermaid… our way. The grand finale of our three-part series. Featuring the voices of Jodie Foster, Glenn Close, Dax Shepard, Brit Marling, and many more.
Brit Marling
Exterior: ocean. The ship, magic hour. Ariel grabs onto a portal window. [sound effects of Ariel grunting and climbing] She hoists herself out of the sea, scales the side of the ship toward the deck. The final bars of Canon in D float down from above as Ariel ascends.
Officiant
Do you, Prince Eric, take Ursula, to have and to hold in sickness and in health, for as long as you both shall live?
Brit Marling
Ariel throws one leg over the starboard railing. The guests, enraptured by the perfection of the bride and groom, don't even notice her arrival. Eric looks deep into Ursula's eyes, hypnotized.
Prince Eric
I do.
Malcolm Gladwell
My name is Malcolm Gladwell. You're listening to Revisionist History, my podcast about things overlooked and misunderstood. This episode is the third and final part of our investigation into the Walt Disney Company's 1989 princess blockbuster, The Little Mermaid.
In parts one and two, we told you what was wrong with the movie. In this, part three, Revisionist History brings you our production of The Little Mermaid. A version finally fit for your children.
Allow me to reintroduce you to the creative force behind our version of The Little Mermaid, the actor and screenwriter Brit Marling. We met her in the previous episode, where I asked her to reimagine a better ending for The Little Mermaid. To identify precisely where Disney went wrong and fix it.
Brit Marling
Look, there's something very true at the center of The Little Mermaid, and that's what makes it sticky, both the Hans version and the animated version that came from Disney. And the sticky thing at the center is that women do often lose their voices at around that age. And so any myth that doesn't have something true at the center just fades away. It doesn't really last the test of time. But a myth that gets something right will stick around.
Malcolm Gladwell
In both the original Hans Christian Andersen version of The Little Mermaid and in the Disney version, the little mermaid must surrender her voice to the sea witch in order to participate in the real world.
Brit Marling
To get to a true happy ending, you have to acknowledge that the tear in the story is maybe correct, right? That it functions as a cautionary tale. Young women sometimes do lose their voices, and that tear, or that point of no return, promises an obligatory scene. And the obligatory scene is, well, how does she get her voice back? Does she get her voice back? What does she say when she has her voice back? On those counts, the Disney version really fails to inspire a genuine happy ending about how a young woman might get her voice back, and then what she might do with it.
Malcolm Gladwell
Someone just randomly gives her voice back. Like, did she go to the lost and found and it happened to be there? I mean, it's about as unsatisfying as that.
Brit Marling
I mean, I went back and re-watched it, Malcolm, because I was like, it can't be as bad as I think it is. But it's worse. She's standing on the dock watching the wedding ship go out into the sunset, knowing that Eric is about to marry this princess, and when the sun sets, she'll be turned into this algae creature that's a lost soul in Ursula's Garden of Lost Souls under the sea. So she's crestfallen, and she's standing there, and then Scuttle the seagull comes flapping over the thing, and it's like, "Oh my gosh, I looked through the portal window and it's Ursula who's marrying Prince Eric."
And Ariel flings herself off the dock, lands in the water, and she can't swim. So then not only does Flounder have to drag her to the boat on the back of a barrel, but then when she gets up onto the deck, she's standing there and it's Scuttle, the seagull, that goes and gets the shell off Ursula's neck, throws it on the floor, and it just happens to land where she's standing, and she just happens to reabsorb her voice through literally no agency of her own.
Malcolm Gladwell
Brit believed that The Little Mermaid could only be saved with a completely new kind of Ariel. But who could play her? I called up Avy Kaufman, one of the top casting directors in Hollywood. I sent her Brit's script, and I asked her to find us someone to embody the spirit of a teenager, a mermaid teenager, but one with a certain amount of moxie. Edge.
Avy Kaufman
So in thinking about child actors and Jodie and people we love... I think Jodie could have done that.
Malcolm Gladwell
Jodie being Jodie Foster. Jodie Foster, who famously played an FBI agent in Silence of the Lambs and, long before that, a child prostitute in Martin Scorsese's Taxi Driver.
Iris (played by Jodie Foster)
Why do you want me to go back to my parents? I mean, they hate me. Why do you think I split in the first place? There ain't nothing there.
Travis Bickle (played by Robert De Niro)
Yeah, but you can't live like this. It's a hill. Girls should live at home.
Iris (played by Jodie Foster)
Didn't you ever hear of women's lib?
Malcolm Gladwell
Yes. That Jodie Foster. That's where we're going with this. We're thinking that the young Jodie Foster ought to play a Disney princess.
Avy Kaufman
Yeah, Jodie could have done that believably. Believably. And Jodie's kind of like that. She's got that toughness inside that's surrounded by the big heart.
Malcolm Gladwell
And the intelligence you're talking about.
Avy Kaufman
Yeah, the intelligence.
Malcolm Gladwell
We would believe that she could make that leap.
Avy Kaufman
Jodie could do it. There you go.
Malcolm Gladwell
The young Jodie Foster could not have been Walt Disney's Ariel. Not in a million years.
Avy Kaufman
No.
Malcolm Gladwell
Bat her eyelashes and let someone else save her? Are you kidding me?
Avy Kaufman
No. No! She wouldn't have taken the role, because she wouldn't have had a clue what to do with it.
Malcolm Gladwell
Right. She would've said, "Are you sure you're not looking for another J. Foster?"
Avy Kaufman
No. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Malcolm Gladwell
Did we ask Jodie Foster to play our Ariel? To join the Pushkin Players? Did she say yes? Let me answer that with another question. Have we at Revisionist History ever let you down?
[soft chimes] As a child in England, I grew up hearing the BBC program Listen With Mother, every episode of which opened with...
BBC Presenter
Are you sitting comfortably? Then I'll begin.
Malcolm Gladwell
You've all been patient, all of you. You have listened as we have taken swing after swing at the bloated pinata that is the original Little Mermaid. It's time to raise the curtain. Are you sitting comfortably? Then let's begin.
We're in the story's final act. Ariel had hoped to win the heart of the handsome Prince Eric. Marrying him was the only way she could stay a human, but the prince has chosen to marry another woman, who is actually the sea witch Ursula in disguise. The soon-to-be newlyweds are on a boat. There are guests, music, dancing, all manner of merriment, and into this spectacle comes our badass Ariel.
So with that, may I present The Little Mermaid 2.0. Written and narrated by Brit Marling.
Brit Marling
Ariel grabs onto a portal window. [sound effects of Ariel grunting and climbing]. She hoists herself out of the sea, scales the side of the ship toward the deck. The final bars of Canon in D float down from above as Ariel ascends.
Officiant
Do you, Prince Eric, take Ursula, to have and to hold in sickness and in health, for as long as you both shall live?
Brit Marling
Ariel throws one leg over the starboard railing. The guests, enraptured by the perfection of the bride and groom, don't even notice her arrival. Eric looks deep into Ursula's eyes, hypnotized.
Prince Eric
I do.
Officiant
And do you, Ursula, take Prince Eric...
Brit Marling
Ariel, soaking wet, wreathed in seaweed, red in the face, charges forward, leaps onto the stage, heads right for the couple-to-be like a charging bull. The guests gasp at this invasion. A scorned woman come to sabotage the wedding? To throw Eric's fiance overboard?
Ariel barrels forward, arms outstretched. And just when it seems like Ariel might strike Ursula, she collides with her in an embrace full of feeling. The guests' jaws drop.
Officiant
God in heaven!
Brit Marling
Ursula, shocked, disgusted, lets the mask of perfect bride slip. Her true voice, laced with bitterness.
Ursula
Ugh! [spatters] Get - get off me, you fool!
Brit Marling
Ursula tries to extricate herself from Ariel's arms, but Ariel holds on with a strength of heart impossible to unravel.
Ariel
Ursula!
Ursula
Oh, you're strong.
Prince Eric
Ariel, what are you doing?
Brit Marling
Everyone looks on in shock at this truly bizarre scene. One woman hugging another woman who wriggles, squirms, fights to escape this embrace but cannot break it, and also seems to not really want to.
The force of Ariel's kindness gains the power of actual magic, and the shell around Ursula's neck that holds Ariel's voice begins to glow, hum, tug away from Ursula as if possessed and move toward Ariel.
Ursula
I... Stop! Stop! Stop, I say!
Brit Marling
But Ariel doesn't stop. By the heat of Ariel's love, Ursula begins to transform back into her original form. [sound effect of squelching, ripping] Her slender limbs morph into thick, barnacle-covered tentacles. Her wedding dress bursts at the seams to reveal her sea-slick octopus body. A woman in the audience screams shrilly.
Wedding Guests
Good God.
Ugh, disgusting.
What is she?
Brit Marling
Children cower under their seats. Grown men back away in horror. Eric stumbles and nearly falls over.
Prince Eric
Oh! I almost married an octopus.
Brit Marling
But Ariel doesn't stop hugging this creature, this being that everyone else is so revolted by. The force of Ariel's feeling compels her own voice out of the shell around Ursula's neck. The light of that voice slips its prison and hovers in mid-air a moment.
The audience gasps. The priest faints. [Priest sighs, sound effect of soft thud] The light floats into Ariel's open mouth. And then she sings in a voice as radiant as a sun that breaks a summer storm. [Ariel vocalizes] Eric, realizing it was, in fact, Ariel who rescued him, rushes forward to her.
Prince Eric
Ariel? It was you! It was you all along.
Ariel
Duh.
Prince Eric
Too little too late, Eric. And honestly, Eric was not really the point and never has been. Ariel's arms still wrap Ursula who, in spite of herself, leans into the embrace. Ariel turns back to Ursula and says softly into her ear...
Ariel
You hurt me, but I understand why you hurt me.
Ursula
What do you know, you idiotic, doe-eyed teenager?
Ariel
I know that you were kicked out of the kingdom by my family. I know you were left in the dark part of the ocean to die alone. And I know you have suffered greatly. I know you made me and many others suffer greatly.
Ursula
All I have is the art of cruelty. All I have is your hate. Everyone's hate.
Ariel
I don't hate you. Ursula
Brit Marling
Ursula scoffs at this, but her eyes go wide with feeling. No one has said a kind word to Ursula in years.
Ariel
And in time, understanding you better and why you've done the things you've done, I could maybe even love you.
Ursula
Ah!
Brit Marling
Ursula cries out as if bitten by those words. For a moment, in Ariel's embrace, we see Ursula as the magic of Ariel's empathy allows Ariel to see her: Ursula at Ariel's age, 16. The age before Ursula's heart was broken. She's open, full of vigor and young magic, curious and alive like Ariel is. Had they met at this age, they might have been best friends. They might even have been lovers. The two young women regard each other a moment.
Ariel
You've taught me the power of my voice. I could actually even thank you for that.
Brit Marling
Ursula weeps now like the teenager she is in Ariel's eyes. Unbidden, unstoppable tears.
Ursula
I'm sorry. I'm so sorry.
Brit Marling
Ariel looks to Ursula now. Still holding Ursula's hands.
Ariel
It's okay. Someone hurt you just like you hurt me. And I think I know who it was.
Brit Marling
[dramatic music; sound effect of thunder] The sky has darkened and the sea froths now in anger. Waves rock the craft. The guests hold onto their hats in a sudden, fierce wind. Eric grabs a sword off a nearby guard in fear.
Prince Eric
[grunts] En garde!
Brit Marling
Ariel lets go of Ursula's hands in surprise and Ursula becomes her true age again, just as King Triton emerges from the ocean, huge, bearing his trident and riding an enormous wave toward the ship, an army of spear wielding mermen behind him.
Triton
Ursula!
Brit Marling
His voice booms like thunder.
Triton
Stay away from my daughter.
Brit Marling
Lightning cracks the sky from the force of his rage. Triton looms over the ship now like a giant.
Triton
I was too kind when I banished you from the kingdom. I should have destroyed you.
Brit Marling
Triton lifts his trident high. It sparks with electricity drawn from the sky. He aims that laser beam of death toward Ursula, who, suffused with love, has no ready counter-attack.
Ariel
No!
Brit Marling
Ariel shouts powerfully. She throws herself in harm's way to protect Ursula.
Ariel
You kept me and my sisters prisoner in the castle. You exiled Ursula from family, friends, safety, because she dared to practice magic, and you wanted to be the only one with such power. But I have magic too, father. We all have magic.
Brit Marling
And then Ariel begins to use the power of her voice, which is real magic, to sing. It's so hypnotic and so true that the sea begins to calm under her spell, and the anger surging in the bodies of the merman soldiers begins to dissipate. Ursula looks to Ariel in wonder and joins her song, a lower note in perfect harmony.
As Ursula sings, the lost souls of her garden shake free from the terrible purgatory of her old spells. They swim to the surface as merpeople once again and sing with the passion of the newly freed. Citizen merpeople drawn to the sound of real freedom break the surface of the sea and sing too. Sebastian and Flounder sing. Even Scuttle sings, a little off-key but committed. Altogether, they make the most beautiful music human ears have ever heard. Eric weeps from the sound.
Prince Eric
[sniffs] Beautiful.
Brit Marling
So do many of his wedding guests, who have not allowed their hearts to become too hardened to life. Some of them, the brave ones, begin to sing too. The music travels so far and so wide that even townspeople on land begin unconsciously humming this melody they've never heard before, but feel they have known always.
The clouds part. The setting sun is round and pink. Birds land happily on the shoulder of Triton. And this big, proud, vain, old king cannot help but be moved by his young daughter and her magic to unite across genders, across generations, across species. Triton looks at Ariel with tears of humiliation mixed with tears of awe. Ariel stands on the edge of the balcony, level with him.
Ariel
Dad, you don't need to be the most powerful to be the most loved.
Brit Marling
Triton's eyes widen at the wisdom of her youth. A tear or two falls from his eyes.
Triton
I'm sorry, Ariel. I've not been a very good listener. Can we begin again?
Brit Marling
Ariel nods and embraces her dad over the railing. And now the sun finally sets. Ursula's old spell wears off. Ariel transforms into a mermaid once more. The guests have no reaction at this point. They've really seen it all. Ariel laughs as her legs morph into a powerful fin. Eric drops down to her side.
Prince Eric
Hey, I mean, thank you. You, like, saved my life.
Brit Marling
Ariel smiles at him.
Ariel
Don't mention it.
Brit Marling
All she really wanted was a thank you. It may be all any of us ever really want. Ariel turns to Ursula.
Ariel
Hey, shall we go home?
Brit Marling
Ursula nods.
Ursula
Yes, let's go.
Brit Marling
They take each other's hands and jump. [sound effect of splashing]
Malcolm Gladwell
Let's take a moment to discuss our revised and greatly improved ending to The Little Mermaid. First of all, to any executives of the Walt Disney Company who happen to be listening, please feel free to use our ending in the remake of the Little Mermaid that I understand you're working on. Go right ahead. Ariel and Ursula deserve a better fate than you have given them for the past 30 years.
Speaking of Ursula, did you recognize that voice? Did you figure out who we got to play this most critical of roles?
Ursula
Get - [struggling] Get off me, you fool!
Malcolm Gladwell
We couldn't use just anyone in the role, because Ursula is not a two-dimensional villain anymore. We're not murdering her off. We're redeeming her. Brit's point was, why is she even the villain in the first place?
Brit Marling
It's just that... Who do young women lose their voices to? Not really wise old women living on the edge of town. Right? That's not the culprit of who takes women's voices from them. So I think that's the problem you're contending with at the end, which is... The idea of a witch is a kind of smoke screen that prevents us from thinking about where the forces of antagonism against women actually lie.
Malcolm Gladwell
So Ursula has to be played by someone who can do more than a garden variety witch.
Glenn Close
So how old is Ursula? [chuckles] Like, [in older voice] "Get off me, you..."
Brit Marling
No, I think you-
Glenn Close
[slightly younger voice] "Get off me!" What?
Brit Marling
I think you could play her older, for sure. Because that's sort of the trope, the older witch on the edge of town, kind of thing.
Glenn Close
Okay. All right.
Malcolm Gladwell
That's Brit directing Glenn Close. We got Glenn close. Of course we did! It was only right to have Disney's 1996 Cruella de Vil returning as Revisionist History's 2021 Ursula.
Now what about Prince Eric? Brit and I had a long planning session on the Eric problem. He's a completely cardboard figure who only is allowed to have any kind of meaningful role when he kills somebody.
Brit Marling
Oh! Oh, Malcolm, I love that. Yes, I love that. We're doing a lot of talking right now about the ways in which we need to liberate women through stories, but we should also do a lot of talking about the ways in which we need to liberate men.
Malcolm Gladwell
We didn't need a murderous vigilante anymore. We needed a liberated man.
Prince Eric
I almost married an octopus.
Malcolm Gladwell
Did you recognize that voice? The embodiment of male liberation, the actor, comedian, podcaster extraordinaire, Dax Shepard. Here he is during our taping, taking direction from our producer, Lee Mengistu.
Lee Mengistu
Oh, I kind of wanted you to do it kind of like a clueless himbo. You know what I mean?
Dax Shepard
Well, tell me what a himbo and is, and I'll [inaudible 00:21:56]...
Malcolm Gladwell
A male bimbo. [inaudible 00:21:58].
Lee Mengistu
A himbo is the male version of a... Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
Malcolm Gladwell
Male bimbo.
Dax Shepard
Male version of a what?
Malcolm Gladwell
Bimbo.
Dax Shepard
Oh, a bimbo! [group laughs] Okay. Ariel, what are you doing? Oh, Ariel! What are you doing?
Lee Mengistu
[group laughs] Oh, that was great. Thank you.
Malcolm Gladwell
As for King Triton, the king is played by Ethan Herschenfeld, stand-up comic, actor and former opera singer, which was a delight for our in-house musical genius, Luis Guerra.
Luis Guerra
It's a little more urban feeling, you know what I mean?
Ethan Herschenfeld
Right. Urban I can kind of do, because I grew up in the Bronx, but it was Riverdale.
Luis Guerra
There you go. There you go.
Ethan Herschenfeld
So you're hearing the Riverdale part of the Bronx.
Luis Guerra
There you go. [laughs] It sounds awesome.
Malcolm Gladwell
So Dax Shepard, Jodie Foster, Glenn Close, Ethan Herschenfeld... I mean all-star cast.
Brit Marling
Triton lifts his trident high. It sparks with electricity drawn from the sky. He aims that laser beam of death toward Ursula, who, suffused with love, has no ready counter-attack.
Ariel
No!
Brit Marling
Ariel shouts powerfully.
Malcolm Gladwell
To me, the most beautiful moment in your new ending is when Ariel throws her body in the line of her father's Trident to save Ursula. Right? She will sacrifice herself on the behalf of someone who was, hitherto in the plot, being seen as irredeemable. That someone in good standing...
Brit Marling
Would sacrifice themselves.
Malcolm Gladwell
For someone who is conceived of as irredeemable. The princess, the heir to the throne, the beautiful, whatever, would sacrifice everything for the sake of a witch. Of an outcast. Right?
Brit Marling
Which feels so right, because the witch has been miscast from the beginning, right? I mean, I think cruelty was done to Ursula and it made her cruel. And I believe that Ursula could actually be redeemed and that all it really takes is one person, in an act of tremendous bravery and kindness.
I mean, that's the thing that I keep thinking about these days is, how can you dramatize the strength of kindness? We just don't really believe in kindness as a culture anymore. We think it's soft. We think it's weak. We think it's not serious. But that just doesn't feel right to me. I mean, it feels like there has to be a way to dramatize it as actually this incredibly sharp, pointed, powerful thing.
Malcolm Gladwell
Disney's Little Mermaid instructs little girls to think about themselves. Brit Marling wants little girls to think about someone other than themselves. The outcast living at the bottom of the sea, who also deserves a chance at happiness.
One last thing. The most amazing gift of all. Brit Marling wrote a final scene. She said, we didn't have to use it. I disagree. Here it is. Ariel's coda. [harp music]
Brit Marling
Exterior: shipwreck. Kingdom under the sea. Ariel swims through a shipwreck, joined by Flounder and other mer-teens. They dart in and out of the wreckage, digging into old trunks, rooting out human treasure.
Ariel
So that's the story of the only wedding I ever crashed. I still go on land, but not for Eric.
Brit Marling
Exterior: countryside, day. Ariel gallops across an open field on the back of a horse. They leap a fence together.
Ariel
By day, I explore distant lands, far-off kingdoms, ancient forests. I learn so much from the people I meet. And the gazelles, the trees, the sunflowers, the rainstorms...
Brit Marling
Ariel scales a 500-year-old tree with two other teenagers. They laugh as they race to the top.
Ariel
By night, by my own magic, I return to the sea.
Brit Marling
Ariel walks into the ocean under the light of a full yellow moon. Her legs morph into a fin as she reaches the first big wave. She dives under. Fish, merpeople, crabs, octopi, all manner of sea life, gather around a warm, bubbling sea vent.
Ariel
(singing) I sing stories of the places I've been...
Brit Marling
Ariel sings to them of her travels, while Sebastian conducts a small orchestra in accompaniment.
Ariel
I sing stories of the places I've been, the kindness I've encountered, the danger I've defied, the times I've had to apologize, the times I've been apologized to. And there was finally a wedding that went off without a hitch. It just wasn't my wedding.
Brit Marling
Interior: great hall. Palace, kingdom under the sea. All the merpeople decked out in their finest pearls and corals for a lavish wedding. But it's Triton standing before the pulpit. He lifts the veil of his bride-to-be. It's Ursula. There's still a sharp look in Ursula's eye, but the sharp of wisdom, not of cunning. She smiles, shocked to be met late in life by such happiness. Ariel, a bridesmaid amongst her sisters, beams.
Ariel
It turns out that most of Ursula's bitter potions had come from an early heartbreak. My father.
Officiant
Do you, Ursula, take King Triton to have and to hold...
Ursula
Oh, I do. I do. I do. I do.
Brit Marling
King Triton and Queen Ursula kiss.
Ariel
And Eric? Eric's married too. And happily.
Brit Marling
Eric walks down the palace steps, arms slung around his husband Tom, the town veterinarian. 12 enormous fluffy sheepdogs race around at their feet.
Prince Eric
I know. They're not like us. They don't get it.
Ariel
Eric says it's too weird to eat fish after a fish woman saved his life and he almost married a giant octopus, so the kingdom has gone vegetarian.
Prince Eric
I don't care if they bake it, steam it or fry it. I'd rather die.
Ariel
Eric and Tom are encouraging other kingdoms to do the same in the face of the climate emergency.
Prince Eric
And it will make you die. And the planet.
Ariel
I think he's going to make a fine king one day.
Brit Marling
Ariel sits at a round table with Eric, Tom, and a bunch of other townspeople. It is not a posh silent meal at a ridiculously long table for almost no one. It's a feast for many. They pass bowls of food and break off chunks of bread. They eat with their hands, and sometimes talk with their mouths full. The hall is filled with rowdy laughter and sometimes tears as people tell each other what's on their minds and in their hearts, and what they hope for the future.
Ariel
And so we lived. Not always happily, but certainly more honestly than we ever had before.
Brit Marling
The end.
Malcolm Gladwell
Revisionist History is produced by Mia Lobel, Lee Mengistu and Jacob Smith, with Eloise Lynton and Anna Naim. Our editor is Julia Barton. Mastering by Flawn Williams and engineering by Martín Gonzalez. Fact checking by Amy Gaines.
Special thanks to all those who lent their voice to the Little Mermaid 2.0. Our actors Zal Batmanglij, Glenn Close, Jodie Foster, Ethan Herschenfeld, Brit Marling, Kate Parkinson-Morgan, Dax Shepard and Malcolm Gladwell. And our singers, Devin Guthrie, Luis Guerra, Natalia Guerra, Ethan Herschenfeld, Khalil Saba, Samaya Saba and Ginger Smith.
And an especially warm thanks to two people. First, our composer extraordinaire, Luis Guerra, who all by himself matched and actually exceeded the armies of sound people in multimillion dollar orchestral halls at Walt Disney headquarters. And second, my old friend Brit Marling, who stormed the walls of the Disney fortress and liberated Ariel and Ursula from 30 years of wrongful imprisonment.
Special thanks also to the Pushkin crew: Heather Fain, Carly Migliori, Maya Koenig, Daniella Lakhan, Maggie Taylor, Eric Sander, Nicole Morano, Jason Genbrell, and of course El Jefe, our very own King Triton, Jacob Weisberg. I'm Malcolm Gladwell.
Don't forget my latest book, The Bomber Mafia, which is an expansion of several episodes from the last season of Revisionist History. You can find it wherever books are sold, but buy the audiobook bombermafia.com and you'll get a bonus listener's guide, and you can listen in the podcast app you're using now.
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