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Jeff Sharlet started reporting from Donald Trump’s rallies in 2015, when his presidential campaign stoked a resurgence of white nationalism and white supremacy. Since then, Jeff has traveled the country exploring the growing threats and eruptions of political violence. He writes about these experiences in his New York Times bestselling book The Undertow: Scenes from a Slow Civil War, and he sat down with Ben and Khalil to discuss the book and his belief that we are, today, in the midst of a gradually unfolding civil war.

The Hosts

Khalil Gibran Muhammad

Khalil Gibran Muhammad is one of the nation’s leading experts on the history and present of race and racism, having led the oldest Black archive and teaching at Harvard’s leading policy school.…

Ben Austen

Ben Austen is a journalist and the author of High-Risers: Cabrini-Green and the Fate of American Public Housing, which was longlisted for the Andrew Carnegie Medal of Excellence in Nonfiction and named…