A Slight Change of Plans Brené Brown and Maya Talk “Heated Rivalry,” Mental Spirals, and Moral Beauty

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For years, Brené Brown’s research has shaped how millions of us understand concepts like shame, vulnerability, and resilience. So, as Maya prepared to launch her new book, The Other Side of Change, there was one person she knew she had to talk to. In this special conversation with early readers of the book, Brené and Maya explore why uncertainty rattles us, how it reshapes us, and what it reveals about who we are—and even take a quick detour to gush over the hottest show on TV.

If you enjoyed this episode, check out Brené’s previous appearance on A Slight Change of Plans: “Brené Brown on Our Flawed, Imperfect Selves

In case you missed it—Maya’s book, “The Other Side of Change” is officially a NYTimes bestseller! Order your copy at changewithmaya.com/book, or wherever you like to buy books.

The Host

Dr. Maya Shankar

Maya Shankar is a cognitive scientist who served as a Senior Advisor in the Obama White House, where she founded and served as Chair of the White House Behavioral Science…