Dr. Maya Shankar
Maya Shankar is a cognitive scientist who served as a Senior Advisor in the Obama White House, where she founded and served as Chair of the White House Behavioral Science…
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After her mom’s car accident throws Tiffany Haddish’s childhood into chaos, a social worker gives her an ultimatum that changes her life.
Tiffany Haddish
Girl, if I hadn't gone through all the stuff that I've been through, I would not be funny at all. If you think about it, like everything that I am capable of, that I'm able to access, it comes from all of the tragedy.
Dr. Maya Shankar
That's Tiffany Haddish. She's a badass comedian who's won an Emmy for her performance hosting Saturday Night Live. Her Netflix special won her a Grammy for Best Comedy Album, and she's also been in the hit Blockbuster movies, Bad Trip and Girls Trip.
Tiffany Haddish
Now, this movie made history. It made $100 million plus. And I'm trying to figure out where is my cut of that money because I haven't seen it at all yet. And all my friends are telling me, "Tiffany, you a star now. You big time. You balling out of control." And I'm looking at my bank account like, "Uh-huh."
Dr. Maya Shankar
I love Tiffany's irreverence. She is really, really funny. But the reason I wanted to talk to Tiffany is not because she's funny, it's because of how she uses funny, how she's turned her comedy into a superpower to navigate the profound changes she's confronted in her life. Comedy isn't just something Tiffany does on stage, it's how she survives.
I'm Maya Shankar. I study how and why we change, and my work as a cognitive scientist has taken me all over, including the Obama White House. All season long, I'll have intimate conversations with folks who've navigated remarkable change in their lives, and hopefully it'll get us to think differently about change in our own lives.
This is A Slight Change of Plans.
I want to introduce myself.
Tiffany Haddish
Oh, I googled you and did the research on you.
Dr. Maya Shankar
Okay, I'm a cognitive scientist.
Tiffany Haddish
No, I read that you was they the Obama psychic. I came here to get a reading. No, I'm just like playing. I'm playing.
Dr. Maya Shankar
Your future is looking bright. Okay?
Look, Tiffany, the reason I'm so excited to interview you is because you have one of the most radiant personalities, and I think that it's easy for people to forget just how challenging your childhood was. So if you don't mind, I'm just going to jump right in to your mom.
Tiffany Haddish
Let's go. My mom worked the graveyard shift at the post office. She gets home from work at like six, five in the morning or whatever. I was probably like six. I used to make these mud pies. I used to take all these spices and seasonings that I could get to in the cabinet, and I would mix everything together and make it like a patty. But I'd wake her up and I'd be like, "These are for you, mommy." And she would go, "Oh, thank you." And I'd be like, "Because you work so hard and you're the best working mommy ever." And she'd go, "Oh, thank you very much. Now let working mommy sleep." And then I go, "Okay," and I let her sleep.
And then me and my sister would be playing and I would be trying to clean up the kitchen, and she'd come in and she'd see me trying to clean up, and then she would pick me up. She'd give me the best... She used to have the best, the best hugs. Sometimes I dream about those hugs. Those hugs, that's like you just feel like you're in that person's body. You're in the safest place, just so warm. You feel like the back of you can't even be seen, all their meat has just sucked you in. You can take a deep breath and just let all your pain out in their chest.
Dr. Maya Shankar
That version of Tiffany's childhood changes in an instant.
Your mom got into a terrible car accident when you were eight. Do you mind sharing how that changed your relationship with her?
Tiffany Haddish
Oh my goodness. Okay. So that changed the entire dynamic. It flipped it in a way.
Okay, so my mom had the accident. She was in the hospital for three months, and during that three-month process, we were with my grandmother and my aunties. And when my mom came out of the hospital, and mind you, she had to learn how to talk, walk, eat, everything all over again. And I remember the day we went to go get her, the doctor said, "You're going to have to be your mom's biggest helper. You're going to have to grow up now. You're going to have to be right there for her all the time." And I remember telling him, "No problem. I love her. Whatever she needs, I'm going to do it." Right?
Dr. Maya Shankar
Mm-hmm.
Tiffany Haddish
So I'm doing these things, everything. I mean, she taught me how to tie my shoe, now I'm teaching her how to tie her shoe. She taught me how to make hot dogs, now I'm teaching her how to make hot dogs. Everything that she taught me, I'm teaching her.
And then there was so many things that... Because it was hard for her to communicate. My mom was a excellent communicator. She had this crazy vernacular and now she barely has any words and she couldn't express herself, so she started to become violent. So it became this relationship of the person that I love the most on this planet, the first person I ever loved, like she was my God, is now my tormentor.
And she was so mean! She used to say the meanest in the world, like crush your spirit type stuff. And it made me start to resent her and hate her.
Not till I got older did I realize she had brain damage. And I mean, the doctor explained that to me, but that does not register as a child. When I just think about it, I could feel how I felt then. Just constant fear, trying to figure out how not to get my neck broke or another tooth knocked out my head, or just constantly trying to figure out how do I make this person happy enough to not hurt me?
Dr. Maya Shankar
Is that when you realize, "Hey, wait a second. I think my humor has power. I can use it to get out of dangerous situations or help get me what I want"?
Tiffany Haddish
Yeah, humor is definitely a power and I definitely realized that as a kid. It got me hit less or make her forget to lay her thought of what she's going to do. And then I was was using that in school because I was getting bullied in school because I didn't have the best clothes. My hair wasn't done the best because I was raising me and my brothers and sisters, working to try to make sure my sisters and brothers eat and that they have clothes and that they're clean and getting those food stamps in the mail and helping my mom get the groceries and all this stuff.
And it's so crazy because I couldn't even barely read. Right? I'm doing all this grown mom stuff.
Dr. Maya Shankar
Tiffany's mom doesn't improve, and eventually she becomes so unwell, Tiffany and her siblings are forced to enter the foster care system. She's 13. She moves from foster home to foster home, lugging her stuff around with her in a garbage bag.
Throughout all of this, her one constant is humor.
Tiffany Haddish
I would try to make my foster parents, and the group home leaders and stuff, try to make them laugh so they could keep me around, so they'd want me around. And for a while, I was feeling like, dang, am I not good enough? Nobody wants me. They don't love me. They don't like me. I'm trying to be nice. I'm trying to make them laugh. I don't understand. They're laughing at all my jokes, but I don't understand what's wrong.
And later on, I learned that that's not always up to them. It's, a lot of times, up to the court system. The age limits and blah, blah, blah. So many things that-
Dr. Maya Shankar
Have nothing to do with you, yeah.
Tiffany Haddish
Nothing to do with you. But it doesn't mean that it did not affect me mentally.
Dr. Maya Shankar
Absolutely.
Tiffany Haddish
But my comedy, it also catapulted me and it got me help in school. Like I said, I couldn't read that good, but I had a really great memory. So I would make somebody laugh, a guy laugh that had a cool, deep voice. And I'd be like, "Can you read this to me?" And I'd memorize everything he said, and I'd be able to regurgitate that verbatim in class.
Dr. Maya Shankar
By the time Tiffany gets to high school, she's getting into trouble a lot.
Tiffany Haddish
A lot.
Dr. Maya Shankar
It gets to the point where Tiffany's social worker is so tired of showing up to school, she gives Tiffany an ultimatum.
Tiffany Haddish
She was like, "Okay, Tiffany, you got two choices this summer. You can go to the Laugh Factory Comedy Camp or you can go to psychiatric therapy because something is wrong with you. You're not normal." And I was like, "Which one got drugs?" And she said, "You definitely going to be on drugs if you go to therapy." And I'm like, "I'll be damned. I don't want that. I don't want those drugs. So I'll go to the Comedy Camp."
Dr. Maya Shankar
I'm trying to imagine what it was like on that first day of Comedy Camp.
Tiffany Haddish
They sent the paper that says, "You've been accepted to Comedy Camp, and there'll be a lunch provided. Please be prepared to talk for three minutes. And there will be comedians there to help you grow in public speaking and comedy."
So on the way there, I'm thinking, "I'm going to have lunch today." On a Saturday, normally you don't. We don't eat lunch on Saturdays. You get breakfast, you kind of play all day, do whatever all day, and then you get dinner. So, I'm excited. I'm going to get three meals today. All right? It's Saturday. Boom, I'm going to get lunch.
Then I'm thinking of all the little monologues that I know in my head I can do, and I'll just make a fart noise or do a funny pose or something to make it great.
Dr. Maya Shankar
Comedy Camp is a summer program hosted by well-known comedians like Dave Chappelle, Eddie Murphy, and Charles Fleischer. And this is where Tiffany finally gets to showcase her comedic powers to the world.
Tiffany Haddish
I get there and Charles Fleischer is there. I don't really... I know the name, but I don't recognize him. And he gets on stage and he introduces, he says, "Welcome to the Laugh Factory Comedy Camp, everybody. My name is Charles Fleischer. You may recognize my voice from movies like Who Framed Roger Rabbit."
Roger Rabbit
My philosophy is this. If you don't have a good sense of humor, you're better off dead.
Tiffany Haddish
I start screaming at the top of my lungs like, "Ah!" And everybody's looking at me like, "What?" And I was like, "I love Roger Rabbit! That's why I'm funny because of Roger Rabbit. Oh my God! I love Roger Rabbit!"
And he goes, "What do you love about Roger Rabbit?" And I tell him about the scene in the movie when the detective says to the rabbit, "Why are these people doing these nice things for you?" And the rabbit says, "Because I make them laugh, Eddie. If you make people laugh, they'll do anything for you." And I said, "That's what I've been doing all these years. That's how I've been able to get people to help me read. That's how I get people to let me cheat on their homework. That's how I get extra coffee cake at breakfast."
And when I went to that Comedy Camp, it changed everything because it was the first time I felt it, and they told me I'm smart. I'm like, "Me? I'm smart?" Like, "Oh, you're talented." "Me? Me, I'm talented?" That was a feeling I never felt before. I felt safe.
Dr. Maya Shankar
This camp proves to be a real opportunity for Tiffany, and she gets to be on TV for the first time in her life. Channel 2 News in LA wants to do a story on her.
Tiffany is thrilled, but she's a minor, so she needs a parent or guardian to sign a media release form. And because she's in the foster care system, the government has to play this role. So she goes to the LA Family Court to get in front of a judge. And in typical Tiffany fashion, she is on a mission.
Tiffany Haddish
So the first day, I go to that courtroom and I'm sitting there, I'm sitting there and I'm sitting there. Nobody's really paying me any attention. And I'm sitting there, I'm sitting there, and I'm listening to all these other cases, these kids and things. Nobody's paying me any freaking attention at all. And then the court day's over.
Before I left the courtroom, I saw that there was a sign that said, "No gum, no food, no drinks, no magazines, no this," all these nos. I was like, "Well, I'm going to yes those tomorrow."
So I come back the next day. I come back the next day, I brought gum, magazines, Walkman.
Dr. Maya Shankar
I love it.
Tiffany Haddish
Food, I had soda, everything, right?
Dr. Maya Shankar
Yep.
Tiffany Haddish
First, I break out the magazine and I start chewing the gun. I start drinking the drink. The judge was like, "Who are you?" I was like, "I'm Tiffany Haddish and I need you to sign a release form for me." They're like, "Say what?"
They get my case, has me come up there, asks me, "What do you need a release form signed for? Why? Blah, blah, blah." I tell him why, because I want to be a comedian. I'm going to be one of the greatest comedians in the world. And he was laughing and smiling. He looked like the Quaker Oats man. And he's like, "You know what? If you are half as funny on stage as you are right now, then you deserve it," and he signed the release and I was able to go on the news.
Dr. Maya Shankar
So what was it like seeing yourself on TV?
Tiffany Haddish
Well, girl, let me tell you something. First of all, I did not get to see myself right away because Princess Diana died and got me bumped. Okay? I got bumped, and then it was not till the fall. I didn't get to see it because I was at track practice or something. By the time I got home, it was already off. So I called the news station and got the video, and then I saw it,
I like for people to see me and laugh. I don't care if you're laughing at me or with me, as long as you're laughing, right? I get on the bus and I go...
And I was beaming from ear to ear like wow, I thought I looked pretty. I thought I looked a little weird. But it was really cool.
Dr. Maya Shankar
When Tiffany turns 18, she's out of the foster care system and on her own. She's got nowhere to go, so she starts living out of her car, a car she's now immortalized in her standup routine.
Tiffany Haddish
And I used to be in my little Geo Metro. That shit was packed out. But I was classy with mine. I slept in real nice places. I lived in Beverly Hills, bitch. Kept it classy. Police would come every morning about seven. They would make me move. It was like an alarm clock. It was cool. I was like, "That's why I pay taxes. Thank you, police."
Dr. Maya Shankar
I'd only ever heard the standup version of Tiffany's story about being homeless. I wanted to hear the real life one.
Tiffany Haddish
Yeah. I get emancipated and I get homeless, and I have to figure out how I'm going to survive. So I was doing the bar mitzvahs, but that wasn't really paying. I was doing comedy shows, but that's like $20 to $10 a show. That's not really enough to survive on.
So I got a job working in customer service at an airline. And then I kind of moved around from airline to airline, and I was there for some years. And then I got depressed and I ended up in psychiatric therapy because I had stopped doing standup altogether. And my therapist was like, "What makes you happy? What makes you feel good?" And I'm like, "Hearing people laugh, seeing peoples' smiles. That makes me feel good." And she's like, "Why don't you get back into standup as a hobby?"
Dr. Maya Shankar
The psychiatrist story, I almost feel like you're underselling it because you're telling these stories to your psychiatrist, and she cannot stop cracking up.
Tiffany Haddish
Oh my gosh. She made me so mad! She would laugh at everything!
Dr. Maya Shankar
Exactly!
Tiffany Haddish
Laughing at everything.
Dr. Maya Shankar
Like, you are so funny that a trained mental health professional who's trying to give you counsel cannot keep her shit together. I mean, it's a show, not tell situation. It's like, "Tiffany, I don't need to tell you to become a comedian at this point."
Tiffany Haddish
Right. She was right.
Dr. Maya Shankar
So you have this big turning point. So the psychiatrist says, "Hey, this is what you love. Just give it a try." What is it about being on stage and performing that really speaks to you?
Tiffany Haddish
Well, it feels safe. And it's like if anybody's going to try to hurt you, they can't because you have witnesses. That's why I'm like you have witnesses, right? If somebody tries to do something, at least one person in that room will be like, "That's not right. Stop it," or, "I got your back, Tiffany. I'll confess for you."
Dr. Maya Shankar
It is really striking and I think it says everything about your story that you sought physical safety on stage, right? I mean, you hear all these performers say, "Being on stage, that's my comfort zone. That's where I feel most at home." I used to say things like that, but we always mean it in a metaphorical sense, and I think you mean it in a physical sense.
Tiffany Haddish
Yeah. You're not alone. The immediate gratification that I see you, I'm here with you, we're present. Right? That's why I love doing live shows. That laughter, it comes right out of people's mouths directly to your ears. It might bounce off the walls and amplify. You feel it through your whole soul. It is the most wonderful drug for me. It's how I get high. It soothed me. And I don't know why that's my soothing thing. Even if I get really depressed, that's my medicine.
You know that question, they say, "If you could have any superpower, what would it be?" I have it. I have a superpower. And it's to control people's happiness. If I could control people's happiness, if I step in a room and everybody lights up, everybody gets joyous, that's a really good thing. And then I feel like you could dominate the whole world with that. You could rule the world.
And so am I a superhero? Yes. That's what I feel like.
Dr. Maya Shankar
After the break, Tiffany talks about processing all the change she's been through. We'll be right back with A Slight Change of Plans.
I am Maya Shankar, and we're back with A Slight Change of Plans. And as a heads-up, we're going to be talking about sexual assault in a moment.
Tiffany's gone through so many changes in her life using comedy as a tool over and over again to survive. But are there times where comedy's fallen short for her, when life is simply too dark to laugh about? For example, when Tiffany was 20, she said her stepfather told her he had cut the brake lines on her mom's car before the accident in order to try and kill her family and collect life insurance.
You learned as an adult that your mom's car accident may not have actually been an accident after all. Can you tell me more about that?
Tiffany Haddish
Girl, that makes me so mad when I think. I get really upset about it. But at the same time, I could find the funny in it. This guy was a sniper. He was in the military. His job was to kill people. That's his job. And he obviously wasn't that good at it because we still all alive. Like...
You know what I can't find the funny in, what I have still yet to be able to find, to be able to make funny, and I have tried many times, and I'm not capable of it because I feel like it's kind of impossible, but maybe it's in it, but anything is possible. But I can't find... Being raped.
I tried. I tried to myself when it happened to me, I tried to tell myself, "Well, that means you sexy. You beautiful. You're irresistible, girl. Look at you." That's not funny though. But that is how I was able to process it. There's nothing, I can't find nothing about that. I was robbed and there's no redemption in it. There's no recovery of what was right. You can never get that back.
I would like to figure out a way to make it funny so people can heal from it. And I'm so grateful to people that are willing to share their stories because when you share your experience and your story, you have no idea who you are healing, who you are helping, who you are uplifting.
Dr. Maya Shankar
Another thing that struck me about your life is that you've lived two starkly different lives in one lifetime. So as a child, you're neglected, you're undervalued, and now you live in a world where even strangers will run up to you and say, "Oh my God, Tiffany, I love you so much!" They want to hug you.
What is it like to have lived both of these lives within one lifetime?
Tiffany Haddish
Yeah. But both lives are the same in a fucked up way, right? So here I am, an adult, and people are telling me they love me, which is what I wanted as a kid. I wanted that love as a child. Did I want the whole world's love? No. I wanted my father's love, I wanted my grandmother's love, I wanted my mom's love.
Dr. Maya Shankar
Is your mom better today?
Tiffany Haddish
Well, I got my money together. I got her out of the mental institution. I got her the best doctors, best therapist, psychiatric therapist. And when she comes to my house, it's like the communication is so much better. That first year that she was out of the institution, it was a little shaky there. And there was a little bit of a, "Well, I think I'm finna fight my mom again" type stuff going on.
And what you have to realize, what I realize now as an adult is when people are hurting, if they're hurt, you can only give them... It doesn't matter if you give them your whole soul, they have to heal on their own, and maybe just a little bit, the little laugh that you give them, is a little, it's enough, but they're going to continue to hurt others until they stop hurting. And you can't always take that hurt away. That's something they have to do.
But it's been like three years now, so much better. So it's just a huge difference. And there's glimpses, I could see glimpses of my mom pre-accident, my mom pre-accident.
Dr. Maya Shankar
Wow. Do you feel like getting those glimpses today changes the way that you think back on your childhood? Does it make those memories pre-nine years old feel more salient to you?
Tiffany Haddish
Well, yeah. They're less like a dream or a fantasy and more like, "Oh, that really did happen." And it's funny because I'll bring up certain things and some stuff she remembers because some stuff I think is a dream. And she's like, "No, I think that happened too. I remember that."
Dr. Maya Shankar
Huh, yeah. Have you gotten that hug even one time in the last few years?
Tiffany Haddish
I mean, we hug. We hug. That hug? I don't think I'll ever get that hug from her again. That hug of gratitude, that hug of I'm proud of you trying, that hug of you're my baby, that hug of like... And she used to be saying that, "I'm so glad you try." These are the things that play in my mind. That's not a dream.
Dr. Maya Shankar
You've willed so much remarkable stuff to happen in your life, but you've been thrown so much shit, right? What would be your advice for people who are listening, who are just feeling totally overwhelmed by change?
Tiffany Haddish
Okay, so embrace it. Embrace the change. It is uncomfortable. And even if you got to do it kicking and screaming, kick and scream and embrace it, and find the good in it.
Like you said, I've been thrown so much shit. Girl, if I hadn't gone through all the stuff that I've been through, I would not be funny at all. I would just be a pretty face with a talent. If you think about it, everything that I am capable of that I'm able to access, it comes from all of the tragedy.
When I'm able to talk to foster youth and connect with them and inspire them to achieve their goals, and they start sending me messages about their education that they're getting or their business that they're starting or whatever, I'm not able to communicate with them the way that I am because life was easy or because I don't understand hurt. Our souls are able to connect. I'm tickling their spirit. I'm inspiring them because their soul can hear my soul.
The heart speaks to the heart. We could be speaking two completely different languages and just by the tone of the voice, the tone of it, you'll feel it. Lik you can't see me right now, I got my camera off, but I know you feeling me right now.
Dr. Maya Shankar
I am.
Tiffany Haddish
I know you are because I can feel you. And when everybody hears us talk, they're going to feel it too.
Dr. Maya Shankar
It's just wonderful to feel connected to people that you've never even met before.
Tiffany Haddish
Thank you for saying that. You just put the cheese on my face for the rest of the day! And I'm glad you got pretty teeth. And that's my favorite part, your smile.
Dr. Maya Shankar
Hey, thanks for listening. See you next week for my conversation with Hillary Rodham Clinton. We talk about how the public's been asking her to change for decades and how she's handled that pressure.
Hillary Rodham Clinton
It is a constant balancing act. It's everything from how you dress and what your hairstyle is to how loudly you speak or how loudly you laugh or who you are seen with or... I mean, it's just a constant judgment.
Dr. Maya Shankar
A Slight Change of Plans is created and executive produced by me, Maya Shankar. Big thanks to everyone at Pushkin Industries, including our producer Mo LaBorde, associate producers David Zha and Julia Goodman, executive producers Mia Lobel and Justine Lang, senior editor Jen Guerra, and sound Design and mix engineers, Ben Tolliday and Jason Gambrell.
Thanks also to Luis Guerra who wrote our theme song and Ginger Smith who helped arrange the vocals. Incidental music from Epidemic Sound. And of course, a very special thanks to Jimmy Li.
You can follow A Slight Change of Plans on Instagram @DrMayaShankar.
You know, your life has been filled with startling amounts of change. Do you feel sometimes like, man, if I could get through that, I mean, I can get through anything?
Tiffany Haddish
Hell yeah, girl. Hell motherfucking yeah!
The Host
